\n\tDan Weissmann<\/span><\/p>\n

Navigating the U.S. health care system can feel like a \u201cbattle royale.\u201d From challenging unfair medical bills to wrestling with insurance companies over pre-authorizations, patients have to be ready to stick up for themselves.\u00a0<\/p>\n

So, how can you stay cool and confident in these fights? In this rebroadcast of \u201cAn Arm and a Leg\u201d from 2020, host Dan Weissmann hits up self-defense coach Lauren Taylor<\/a> about strategies for standing up for yourself and hears how she applied her approach in her own fight for health care coverage.<\/p>\n

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\n\t\t\t\t@danweissmann\t\t\t<\/a><\/p>\n

\t\t\tHost and producer of “An Arm and a Leg.” Previously, Dan was a staff reporter for Marketplace and Chicago’s WBEZ. His work also appears on All Things Considered, Marketplace, the BBC, 99 Percent Invisible, and Reveal, from the Center for Investigative Reporting.\t\t<\/p>\n

\n\t\tCredits\t<\/h3>\n
\tEmily Pisacreta
\n\tProducer<\/p>\n
\tAdam Raymonda
\n\tAudio Wizard<\/p>\n
\tEllen Weiss
\n\tEditor<\/p>\n
\tMarian Wang
\n\tEditor<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\tClick to open the Transcript\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\tTranscript<\/strong>: Self-Defense 101: Keeping Your Cool While You Fight<\/strong><\/strong>\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n
Note: \u201cAn Arm and a Leg\u201d uses speech-recognition software to generate transcripts, which may contain errors. Please use the transcript as a tool but check the corresponding audio before quoting the podcast.<\/em><\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Hey there \u2013 Before we start, I just want to say THANK YOU for supporting our work here. Thanks to you, we beat all <\/em>of our goals for the end of 2023.\u00a0<\/p>\n
That means we collected every dollar of matching funds that were on offer \u2014 and because so many folks became donors for the first time, we earned a bonus from the Institute for Nonprofit News.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So we are starting this year in good shape, which is great, because we\u2019ve got some big projects planned.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Thank you so much.<\/p>\n
Now, in less delightful news, I\u2019m fighting a little bit with my insurance company right now. Or \u2026 is it the hospital billing office I\u2019m fighting with? Each one keeps sending me back to the other. It\u2019s \u2026 a good time.<\/p>\n
There\u2019s a First Aid Kit newsletter in all this, but for now I\u2019m struggling to find the hours for all the phone calls, and to keep my composure.\u00a0<\/p>\n
On that last note\u2013 keeping my composure \u2014\u00a0 this seems like a good time to bring back what may be the most useful episode we\u2019ve ever done, from late 2020.<\/p>\n
You ready? Here we go.<\/p>\n
I got a voicemail from a listener named Amanda Jaffe. She\u2019s been listening to our episodes about folks who fight back against insurance companies and outrageous bills. And she says she\u2019s kind of a bulldog herself on this stuff. BUT she says there\u2019s a snag. Maybe you can relate \u2014 I definitely can.<\/p>\n
Amanda Jaffe:<\/strong> When I call the insurance companies, I start to get angry to a point where maybe it\u2019s unproductive. So I need some guidance on how to remain cool when calling insurance companies. Thanks. I\u2019d really need the help.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> YES. I have been thinking about this for months and months. We\u2019ve been hearing from people who fight and fight, and sometimes win, and a couple of things keep getting clearer:\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
ONE: You\u2019re probably gonna spend a LOT of time on the phone, a lot of it on hold, and a lot of it with people who, for one reason or another, are not gonna seem that helpful.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And TWO, I keep hearing over and over again:\u00a0 You\u2019ve gotta keep your cool. OK, sure.<\/p>\n
But I keep wondering again and again: OK, HOW?<\/p>\n
And today, I think I\u2019ve got exactly the person I\u2019ve been looking for.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> My name is Lauren Taylor. I run Defend Yourself in Washington, DC, and we teach people skills for stopping harassment, abuse, and assault.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> So for like a YEAR I\u2019ve been describing this show as being focused on self-defense against the cost of health care. And Lauren is an actual self-defense teacher. Has been one for thirty-five years.<\/p>\n
And it turns out self-defense \u2014 the way Lauren and her colleagues teach it \u2014\u00a0 is NOT just the hitting and the kicking. It\u2019s defending yourself against all kinds of \u2026 encroachment. Street harassment. Creepy co-workers. Just standing up for yourself. You might\u2019ve noticed, Lauren said her group teaches people skills for stopping harassment, abuse, and assault.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And abuse \u2026\u00a0 I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s too strong a word for how the health-care industrial complex treats people.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So, Lauren herself is just wrapping up an EPIC fight with her health insurance.\u00a0 And she has been using self-defense skills all along the way. I\u2019m not going into all the details.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> There\u2019s been so many things. I honestly can\u2019t remember them all.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> But we talked through them\u2013 because she\u2019s got \u2019em written down.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> This is also a self-defense thing, which is document, right?<\/p>\n
Just like you would with a stalker or a workplace harasser or, uh, even uh, An abusive partner, is document everything because, you might need it\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> You teach this in the class.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Oh yeah.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> I walk in, think I\u2019m gonna learn how to need somebody in the nuts. And you\u2019re like, \u201cget a notebook.\u201d I\u2019m like, wow.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> People, people do walk in thinking they\u2019re going to learn how to, , knee someone in the groin, and we do teach that. but I can\u2019t tell you how often in evaluations people\u00a0 tell us that they were completely blown away by all the other stuff that they learn, which is really about empowerment.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Yes. Yes, please. Let\u2019s have some of that.\u00a0<\/p>\n
This is An Arm and a Le<\/em>g \u2014 a show about the cost of health care. I\u2019m Dan Weissmann. I\u2019m a reporter, and I like a challenge. So my job here is to take one of the most enraging, terrifying, depressing issues in American life\u2013 and YES, there\u2019s a bunch of those, but I\u2019m sticking with this one\u2013 and produce a show that\u2019s entertaining, empowering, and useful.<\/p>\n
And here we are.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s Lauren\u2019s deal: It starts the early 1980s,\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> I had saved up money and I was gonna take some time and travel by myself. And a friend of mine told me about a self-defense class that she had taken. And I thought, \u201cOh, that\u2019s a really good idea. I should probably do that if I\u2019m going to travel by myself.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> She says it changed her life. Like, as a teenager, she\u2019d dealt with a LOT of street harassment. She figured, man, that\u2019s just how it goes.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> And I had always thought that if anybody tried to rape me, there would be nothing I could do because by definition they would be bigger and stronger than me.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And the real life-changing piece of the self-defense class was realizing that that was wrong. It was realizing that I had power and that I could hurt somebody who was trying to hurt me.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> How did that feel?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> It\u2019s, it\u2019s totally life changing. I mean, even now,\u00a0 like, just tell it to you. I still feel like a rush of energy through my body saying it.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> It\u2019s thrilling. It\u2019s like, holy shit! I\u2019m not helpless<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Yeah. I can protect myself. Yeah. And I have power and, and . A big piece of it also is I have permission to do this and I deserve to be protected.I deserve to be able to defend myself.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And all of those are not messages that, you know, most of us get growing up still. And certainly not when I was growing up. So, it\u2019s kind of like, caught the fever and then wanted to spread the gospel of self-defense.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> So, she\u2019s been teaching self-defense since 1985.<\/p>\n
I asked her: So, how did it change your life\u2013 beyond the fact that you started teaching it? Like, what did you do differently?<\/p>\n
She says for starters, she did take that trip, and there was a night or two that didn\u2019t go according to plan: Her place to crash fell through, she was out late, lost, a little scared. And she took out a pen, so in case she needed to hurt somebody, she\u2019d have a pen to hurt them with. She did NOT have to use it, but having a plan helped her keep cool.<\/p>\n
But that wasn\u2019t the big stuff. The big stuff was standing up for herself in other ways. Like when her boss in a full-time volunteer gig started sexually harassing her.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Whereas before I would have liked, you know, suffered and wrung my hands and journaled about it and called 12 friends and, thought maybe there was something wrong with me\u00a0 and you know, all of those things I didn\u2019t do, I was just like, Really no, don\u2019t do this.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> And then what happened?<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Ge pretty much cut it out.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> YEAH. And then there was her mom. Who did NOT deal well with Lauren being gay. It was painful. And then there was the final straw:\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> We had a large family reunion and She didn\u2019t invite my partner and she invited my siblings partners.<\/p>\n
Jesus, ouch. They\u2019d had a lot of conversations. Now Lauren set a hard boundary. She put it in writing to her mom:\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> There are some basic things I need from you, or I\u2019m not going to be able to stay in contact with you. Right. So, if there\u2019s a family event, My partner gets invited , that\u2019s self-defense\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> That first self-defense class Lauren took had not covered Dealing With Difficult Family Members, but Lauren says she\u2019d gotten the message:<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> It was okay. to require certain kinds of respect from people.\u00a0 it was okay to be who I was, that wasn\u2019t my fault that people treated me as less than all of that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n
Dan: <\/strong>And by the way, Lauren says the classes she leads now,\u00a0 they DO cover all that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n
In other words, self-defense covers a LOT of territory. The big idea: If you\u2019re in a tough spot, you want some options.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren says she gives students a five-part framework\u2013 five kinds of options.\u00a0<\/p>\n
They are:\u00a0 Run, yell, hit, tell, and go along.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And they\u2019re not all literal. Like, RUN is \u2026<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Leave walk away. Don\u2019t show up for the appointment, break up with the person, anything that makes you not there.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> And she says by YELL, she means: Use your voice.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Assertiveness or deescalation or negotiation, or, you know, that\u2019s not okay with me or don\u2019t come any closer or, you know, I won\u2019t come to family events if you don\u2019t invite my partner. Right.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> \u201cYell\u201d covers a lot of territory there.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Everything with your words pretty much.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Everything with words you use with the other person. Because there\u2019s also TELL. Which she says mean \u2014 also really broadly \u2014 get help.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> It can be getting help in the moment. uh, this person is bothering me. Can I stand with you? And then there\u2019s, longer-term getting help going to HR, going to a hotline, , talking to a lawyer,\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Posting to social media.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Posting it. Right. exactly.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Hit is \u2014 well, it\u2019s actually hitting. They practice that too.<\/p>\n
And then there\u2019s the last one: Go along.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> We want people to know that that\u2019s an option, right? We\u2019re not saying. Always resist. We\u2019re saying resistance is successful way more than you\u2019ve been told and way more than you believe.\u00a0<\/p>\n
But there are times when, going along, is the smartest and safest thing for you to do. And for example, if someone\u2019s trying to take your property, right, if it\u2019s a mugging, And you want to get out of there, unharmed, the smartest and safest thing to do is to give them your property.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Yeah. I think you can probably see the broad outlines of how this could apply to wrangling with your insurance company or fighting unfair medical bills. I mean, talk about a mugging.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
It definitely reminds me of something I said when we started this self-defense series:\u00a0 We\u2019re not gonna win \u2019em all. We just don\u2019t have to lose them all either.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So, that\u2019s Lauren\u2019s framework.<\/p>\n
Next: Let\u2019s learn some SPECIFIC techniques and how we can start applying them. That\u2019s right after this.<\/p>\n
This episode of An Arm and a Leg<\/em> is produced in partnership with KFF Health News. That\u2019s a non-profit newsroom covering health care in America. Their work is terrific, wins all kinds of awards every year. I am so proud to work with them.<\/p>\n
OK. How to actually USE self-defense techniques with medical bills and insurance BS.<\/p>\n
We\u2019ll start with an example from Lauren\u2019s epic health-insurance fight this year. We\u2019re not gonna get into the story\u2013 it\u2019s too long, too weird, and it\u2019s not even really over. BUT we will zoom in on a moment when Lauren\u2019s on the phone and the other person opens by throwing up a roadblock, saying, YOU probably did something wrong.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
I\u2019m like, Argh, I\u2019m already angry. What do you do now? And Lauren\u2019s like, \u201cI stayed on my agenda.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
STAYING ON YOUR AGENDA. This is a whole self-defense thing. Lauren walks me through it:\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Here\u2019s the process. Okay. Something\u2019s happening. You know, like somebody is harassing you on the street or whatever \u2026<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Or you\u2019re calling your insurance, and the other person is being REALLY unhelpful.<\/p>\n
She says you ask yourself three questions, in this order: First, how am I feeling? It\u2019s probably not pleasant.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> I\u2019m terrified. I\u2019m angry, I\u2019m upset. I want to cry. I feel humiliated.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Good times. That\u2019s the first question: How am I feeling?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Second: What do I need? Which is more big-picture: Need to get a safe distance, need respect.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Third, what do I WANT? This is more specific\u2013 what do you want from the other person:\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> I want you to take your hands off me. I want you to take three steps back. I want you to knock before you come in my office. I want you to stop making racist jokes. whatever it is, you turn it into what I want you to sentence, and that is your agenda. What you want to happen is your agenda.<\/p>\n
So. Then when they do whatever people who are misusing power do, which is often. Guilt trip you or trying to manipulate you or blame you like, well, why \u00a0 were you there? Why were you wearing that? Why did you get drunk? Um, it\u2019s just a joke. Um, why wouldn\u2019t have said it, if you hadn\u2019t blah, blah, blah, or why you being such a bitch?<\/p>\n
Um, you know, all of those things are to get you into their web of conversation and off of your agenda and you stay on your agenda. So if I say to you,\u00a0 don\u2019t ask me about my personal life while we\u2019re at work. And you\u2019re like, Oh Lauren, you\u2019re so sensitive.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019m changing the subject. Suddenly, we\u2019re not talking about what you want. We\u2019re talking about my perception of you. And you may have a pretty strong impulse to address that\u2013 Like, \u201cOh, geez, am I?\u201d Or, \u201cI AM NOT\u201d\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> But instead I\u2019m just going to say again, \u201cListen, Dan, I asked you. I only want to talk about work at work. And I really don\u2019t like answering personal questions at work. So please stop asking me.\u201d That\u2019s staying on your agenda.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> And so how did that happen in these phone calls?<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> I just kept saying what I needed or. I would keep saying\u00a0 so what\u2019s the next step? What can we do from here?\u00a0<\/p>\n
So for instance, Lauren played out a long, long set of calls with her health insurance company AND the state office that administers the Obamacare exchange in Maryland, where she lives.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Whenever they hit an impasse, she asked, \u201cWhat is the next step?\u201d Eventually, the next step was: file an \u00a0 appeal through the state attorney general\u2019s office. Lauren called, and the first person to pick up the phone did not have a super-encouraging opening line.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> She was like, well, I\u2019m sure you missed a deadline. And, um, instead of saying, I didn\u2019t miss any deadlines because then we\u2019re into her conversation.<\/p>\n
I said, so please tell me more about how to appeal. Right? Because\u00a0 you know, she probably talks to a hundred people a day and, you know, people make all kinds of mistakes and you know, it\u2019s a big headache to her, I\u2019m sure.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> So Lauren didn\u2019t take the bait. She stayed on her agenda\u2026 AND AFTER A WHILE, ONCE THE APPEAL WAS REALLY IN MOTION, Lauren noticed the same woman\u2013 who was now calling LAUREN with updates, sometimes more than once a day\u2013\u00a0 was singing a different tune. Well, definitely some new words.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> She was using we language.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we like. Yeah,\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> right.\u00a0 So I was like, Oh, this is going very well. she was like, \u201cwe just need to figure this thing out and then we\u2019ll let them know.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cWE\u201d language.\u00a0<\/p>\n
OK, this is great.\u00a0<\/p>\n
AND it\u2019s like:\u00a0 Wait, how do I actually do this?\u00a0 Like, in the moment?\u00a0 Like, here\u2019s Amanda\u2019s question again:<\/p>\n
Amanda Jaffe:\u00a0 I start to get angry to a point where maybe it\u2019s unproductive. So I need some guidance how to remain cool when calling insurance companies.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> YEAH. Me too! Me too.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And Lauren reframed it. She was like: OK, getting angry, that\u2019s not a problem, not a mistake. It\u2019s a feeling that you\u2019re having. And it\u2019s a really reasonable feeling to have.<\/p>\n
And she says Amanda\u2019s nailing it in saying:\u00a0 those feelings probably aren\u2019t gonna be super-helpful IN this conversation.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So, you want a strategy. An agenda. A plan.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> If you can ground yourself in the fact that you\u2019re strategy is to remain calm and confident while still being very assertive and persistent.\u00a0 that is a strategy, it doesn\u2019t mean that you have to feel great about what\u2019s happening. or that you aren\u2019t upset the way that people are treating you.\u00a0 it just means that as a strategy, you are choosing to use this persona, this common, confident, assertive, persistent persona to try and get what you need.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> So, yeah: You\u2019re gonna be mad. That\u2019s gonna happen. You just don\u2019t wanna act out those feelings in the conversation. So here\u2019s the actual ADVICE part: You take those feelings and\u2026\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Do them somewhere else. You, you know, go for a walk and pound the pavement. You vent to a friend. Um, if you have a car, you roll up the windows and drive on a highway and scream. Um, you find, you know, you find a place that\u2019s probably not alcohol or ice cream too.<\/p>\n
Um, To process those feelings because you don\u2019t want them just hanging out in you either. That\u2019s not good for you either.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Which is to say: It may be smart to have a plan GOING INTO the conversation about how you\u2019re deal with those feelings afterwards. Maybe even make a plan with somebody else.\u00a0 You know\u2026\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Call a friend or a family member who\u2019s in your house and say, I\u2019m going to get on the phone with the health insurance company, and we\u2019re going to call you afterwards and vent. Right. And then, you know, I have a place for these feelings. It\u2019s not that I\u2019m squashing<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> There\u2019s a time for that\u00a0 too.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> I love that.\u00a0 But meanwhile, here I am IN the conversation, and things are getting hairy, and I\u2019m HAVING A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT IT.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Not so calm, not so confident, NOT SO CALM.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren\u2019s like: Right. Got you covered. You want to find a technique that helps you quickly get calm and grounded in the moment. She says paying attention to her breathing is her go-to, but\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> My way of doing it may not work for you or her or somebody else. People have to find what works for them to stay calm and grounded. So just a few ideas. It can be, um, breathing. It can be feeling your feet on the floor. Those are my top two, but it also can be, you know, some people saying a quick prayer helps them.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> She\u2019s got more:\u00a0<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> It can be, orienting yourself to the room. Like, what are five things I can see or can I find three blue things? And then what\u2019s one thing I can hear. What\u2019s the one thing I can feel, those orienting things that keep you very much in the present moment and also let you know, like, this may be incredibly upsetting, but right now I\u2019m actually okay. Right now in this moment, I\u2019m actually okay. You know, I\u2019m maybe scared about losing my health insurance. I may be scared about where the money\u2019s going to come from.\u00a0 But if you can say to yourself, like, Oh right now, I\u2019m sitting in a room in my apartment and, um, you know, My loved ones are around me or my pets are around me, or I have a plan for dinner or I\u2019m going to call a friend right now I\u2019m okay. So there\u2019s lots of ways to get present. and I think that getting present is what can help this woman and everybody else.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> What I hear you talking about \u2026 Like when you say: \u201cget into the present,\u201d it\u2019s like, I\u2019m moving my attention. I\u2019m moving my attention from this feeling that I\u2019m having that wants to take up my entire field of attention. And I\u2019m kind of like reminding myself that there are other things to give my attention to. And now that I know that I can give my attention to my strategy<\/p>\n
I think one thing that really strikes me about what you\u2019re saying\u00a0 is \u2026 it\u2019s kind of reframing \u00a0 the question. I start to get angry to a point where maybe it\u2019s unproductive and I think the way that\u2019s framed, is how do I not have the feeling? That\u2019s how I\u2019m reading the questions. The problem is I get angry. And what I\u2019m hearing you say is like, not a problem.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Not a problem<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> You\u2019re getting angry.<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> There are really good reasons to be angry<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> YES! For sure. So what you want isn\u2019t to avoid getting angry\u2013 it\u2019s just to avoid getting out of control. You probably ARE going to get mad. So you want to plan for it.<\/p>\n
And to review, Lauren\u2019s top two tips are:<\/p>\n
One: Have a plan for what you\u2019re gonna do with that anger AFTER the call. How are you going to deal with it?\u00a0<\/p>\n
And two: Have a couple of favorite hacks for quickly re-focusing your attention. To your breath, some other sensation, whatever clicks for you.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
You\u2019re probably gonna want to WRITE down those tricks, practice them, before you get on the phone.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I really love this. And talking to Lauren, I realized:\u00a0 Being on the phone with the insurance company\u2013 or the medical-billing office or whoever else in the medical-industrial complex you\u2019re talking with\u2013 we\u2019ve got advantages we don\u2019t have in some other self-defense situations:\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
One: You\u2019re not in the same physical space with that other person. They can\u2019t see you scrunch up your face, or gently rub your heart, or pet the cat, or silently count to ten while they\u2019re talking.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Which is different from being face-to-face with somebody who could hurt you\u2013 physically or emotionally.<\/p>\n
And two: You don\u2019t have an ongoing relationship with this particular person. It\u2019s not like telling your mom that you need her to invite your partner to family gatherings. Or telling your colleague to stop making racist jokes. Those are relationships that are going to keep affecting you. And probably keep affecting other relationships.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Here, you\u2019re like, WHATEVER, anonymous insurance-company person. Which doesn\u2019t mean you can act like a jerk to them\u2013 that\u2019s not going to help you. But you do have an escape hatch. If you really can\u2019t take it any more without losing your cool\u2026 you can hang up and call back later, when you\u2019re ready, and tell the next person, GEE, I got disconnected before.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I tell Lauren this, and she\u2019s like<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> Yeah, I was definitely thinking, you know, you can, if you have, if you\u2019re too filled up with feeling to be doing something that feels useful, you can absolutely say, you know, I can talk about this anymore. I\u2019ll call, call back another time.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> Oh yeah. Right. You don\u2019t have to like fake, dropping the call. You can just say like, wow. I think I need to, I need some time to digest this. , I\u2019d like to call<\/p>\n
Lauren Taylor:<\/strong> I\u2019ll call back later.<\/p>\n
Dan:<\/strong> YES. I\u2019ll call back later. That\u2019s where we left things with Lauren Taylor in the fall of 2020, and it\u2019s all still super-relevant \u2014 as I can attest right now, with my back-and-forth calls to the hospital and the insurance company.<\/p>\n
One update: Since we talked, Lauren Taylor has published a book!\u00a0<\/p>\n
Get Empowered: A Practical Guide to Thrive, Heal, and Embrace Your Confidence in a Sexist World<\/em> was published in October 2023, and \u2014 although the title suggests that the book targets folks with one X chromosome more than I happen to have \u2014 I am looking forward to reading it.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
We condensed some of Lauren\u2019s advice into a First Aid Kit newsletter last year \u2014 along with related tips from other superstars.\u00a0 We\u2019ll put a link in the show notes \u2014 you should be able to find it wherever you\u2019re listening, and you can sign up for any of our newsletters at arm and a leg show dot com, slash, newsletter.<\/p>\n
We will be back in three weeks.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Till then, take care of yourself.<\/p>\n
This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by me, Dan Weissmann, edited in 2020 by Marian Wang, and for this re-release by Ellen Weiss.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Emily Pisacreta is our senior producer. Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard.<\/p>\n
Gabrielle Healy is our managing editor for audience \u2014 she edits the First Aid Kit newsletter.<\/p>\n
Sarah Ballema is our operations manager. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations.<\/p>\n
An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Health News.\u00a0<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a national newsroom producing in-depth journalism about health care in America, and a core program at KFF \u2014 an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism.\u00a0<\/p>\n
You can learn more about KFF Health News at arm and a leg show dot com, slash KFF.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at KFF Health News. He is editorial liaison to this show.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Thanks to the INSTITUTE FOR NONPROFIT NEWS for serving as our fiscal sponsor, allowing us to accept tax-exempt donations. You can learn more about INN at I-N-N dot org.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And thanks to everybody who supports this show financially.\u00a0 I am about to shout out FIFTY people who donated in the last dozen days of 2023. You ready?<\/p>\n
Thanks this time to\u2026 [names redacted].<\/p>\n
Thank you so much!<\/p>\n
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